Plan for Walls / Insulation

 [We changed how we were going to do the walls a bit in a newer post ("Cheap-O DIY Camper Van: Reflectix On Walls... What Else?") and affix the Reflectix right to the spray foamed walls. Check it out.]

Last week, we applied a single layer of spray foam ("Is Great Stuff good?") over all the walls and doors (besides up front, which we will insulate without spray foam, or spray later).

Brooke then wrote down our next steps to insulate and finish the walls.

1. Take measurements of the walls/windows, The van, like many vehicles, has a lot of many irregular shapes and sizes, curves and measurements that taper, so getting it right is harder than it seems.

2. Put Reflectix loosely over all the spray foamed walls, generating a dead airspace on either side of most of the Reflectix, which is what it needs to insulate well.

On dead air spaces & too much fiberglass insulation

We may or may not put some pink insulation in that airspace, but I tend to think that the empty airspace will work better with the Reflectix because of its radiant insulation properties, while pink insulation may actually do more harm than good, by having heat pass through it and the Reflectix to the walls. A friend with decades of engineering experience advised that dead air was the best insulator in a conversion van, so we are trying to keep that in mind as we test what works best. If in doubt, we will either return the pink insulation or use it elsewhere, but keep in mind that it's the dead air that makes insulation effective too, so stuffing as much as you can into a tight space will only lower your R values.)

3. Use the Reflectix as a template for the panels. The panels must be larger than the Reflectix cuts because they will be coming out more (more 3d formed) and must closely follow bends. We are using thin, white PVC-faced boards cut 2'x4' for convenience. We could have used larger pieces to keep sections more whole, but we're going to have a lot of work making the joints look good between walls/floors/windows etc anyway, so we're not worried about it. We are much more worried about the walls actually sealing in the air/dust/fiberglass than looking good. Some or a lot of the walls may be covered with material or tapestry to help hold heat anyway, like they did in ancient castles.

4. Glue the Reflectix to the spray foamed walls. We want it only as tight to the wall as it has to be to insure it isn't making noise. The unevenness of the spray foam wall should be perfect, because the Reflectix will adhere the high points while everywhere else will have a gap of dead airspace, which is how Reflectix achieves high insulation values (insulation against radiant energy, not conductive energy so much.) Reflectix without a dead airspace around it only has an R-value of 1 because the only radiation insulation happening is in the thin bubblewrap layer sandwiched between the reflective layers.

5. Put in braces for the walls. Forgot the proper construction term, but we screw 1x4's into the walls through the Reflectix and spray foam so that we can screw the walls into those and give them a little more shape and strength.

6. Screw in the walls.

7. Make joints, prime, sand, finish.

Cheap-O DIY Camper Van: Reflectix On Walls... What Else?

I say! What are you doing in that thing!

Once again bouncing back and forth between ideas for the walls, a friend suggested what I think is the best solution, and then we found another trick that I'm excited we'll be able to use.

Flatter Walls, No Dead Airspace

Heron styling it up in the gas mask

A buddy advised just gluing carpet against the spray foam (since it is an adherable surface, especially if you choose to sand it down to a nice flat surface- which we did not.)

Metal walls with cured spray foam & Reflectix

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We decided to go further than just carpet over sprayfoam, but we liked that idea. Our old plan was cutting new paneling out of PVC-faced board, which you can see in the picture to the right, and installing those fairly flexible panels against wood braces, screwed into the metal body of the van that lies behind the sprayfoam.

We would have then filled the joints (somehow) and created a semi-even surface over the white PVC board wall, and either painted that or even put carpet over it.

While that plan might have worked, I liked what my friend suggested after I had mentioned putting carpet on the walls to him. He said how a can of spray glue could get a tight bond to the new sprayfoam surface- no need for bracing or worrying about smashing through a part of the wall with no "stud" behind it while living in it later.

I mourned the lost of the dead air space, because it is good insulation itself, and it is what makes the Reflectix work its insulating magic (we went through some of this in a post from December, ("Is Great Stuff good? DIY Polyurethane Sprayfoam Pros/Cons") but I was convinced we would end up with enough insulation even following this route... and a sturdier wall with a slimmer profile.

After all, all that the van came with was the normal grey plastic paneling with nothing but air in between it and the metal body, and it did a pretty good job insulating.

I admit, some of the plastic panels did had a meager one inch of pink insulation glued on them, but its doubtful they did very much, especially versus what we are doing. More on those plastic panels we saved in a moment.

Maybe A Little Dead Airspace: Floor Underlayment!

And its not that there would be no dead airspace. A little bit of very thin underlayment between the Reflectix and the carpet will provide another small pocket of air, increasing insulation. The underlayment only cost $20 for enough for the walls. I believe it is normally used for carpeted floors. Because it is a plastic or foam type material, it should act as a moisture barrier if tightly installed too.

Getting To It

Reflectix looks snug in most spots. But will it hold??!

The main thing with the Reflectix was getting a really tight fit. Because we chose not to grind the sprayfoam down (because I wanted to chance leaving the naturally uneven sprayfoam pattern surface than to deal with all the toxic dust particles going everywhere) and because it's cold as heck here in Rhode Island, (we just had our first blizzard today even,) the spray glue did not stick well at all, and required repeated applications over small areas while being held tightly to the sprayfoam.

But after heating the van up more and going at it a few more times, we had a pretty snug fit all around.

Glue as snug as possible, lest it come off later!
And cut holes for your locks and stuff!

We will have to see whether this holds up over time though. If it doesn't, the Reflectix will peel from the sprayfoamed walls, (and take the underlayment and carpet with it,) and creature ugly bubbles or sags in the wall. Hopefully this won't be the case, but I had serious concerns about dealing with the containment and cleanup of grinding down the whole van interior worth of sprayfoam.

Once again, that delicious sandwich is:

1. Body of the van (metal)
2. 2" or so of spray foam laid as evenly as possible, all allowed to cure of course
3. Reflectix, spray glued on
4. Thin carpet floor underlayment, spray glued on (to be done)
5. Carpet! probably spray glued on (to be done)

And that should be everything that makes up the walls of our camper van. Sounds good, right? But stick around and read on to see how it works out. Our potential disasters are your amusement!

We left a hole open for the heater to blow out. We will have to vent this later.

Holes left for the door handles, locks, & speakers too. Missed a speaker slot here though. Oops!

Now, about that secret trick we get to use

What secret trick? Did I say that? Well, we kept the plastic panels around to see if we could use them before we tossed them out. It seemed unlikely with any design that involved sprayfoam that we'd be able to get them back on, though, especially all of them. Some of them interlocked trickily too, and an extra puzzle was not what we were looking for with this project.

Turns out the plastic panels should solve an extremely important issue that we hadn't even gotten into yet, which is making the walls reach the windows well. How we were going to frame the windows was always a daunting question, and ideas like a new wooden window sill were tossed around, but would take some work to implement.

Fortunately, we tried fit the plastic panels back to where they went, and they still mostly fit despite the sprayfoam. We also left uncovered most of the metal brackets the inserts clip into, so they will go in as snug as a bug in a rug, and tuck the carpet walls in around the windows nicely. Who knew that the easiest design approach was to use what you already have???

The newly finished Cave of Perpetual Darkness

Welp, we'll leave it at that, and have an update on the trip we just got back from too.

See you on the road!

Is Great Stuff good? DIY Polyurethane Sprayfoam Pros/Cons

We went through most of the typical options for insulation found on the web. We read from both homebuilding sites like buildingscience.com and conversion van forums and travel blogs, and watched dozens of DIY camper renovation videos. (I particularly liked The Ultimate RV Camper Build series from Billy D @ UsaRcJets on Youtube.)

We decided on polyurethane spray foam (SPF) although I'll say why I would consider other options next time. (This is, after all, our first vehicle. so we're going to take some chances. "We got a van") We also did not use spray foam exclusively, and opted to include some fiberglass insulation (Hey, we never said we were doing it green!) and some Reflectix, which I'll talk about more in another post. The foam was the first layer of insulation, directly on the interior metal of the van.

The Basics

A can of normal Great Stuff gap and crack filling spray foam is about $4, but we got ours for half price. If you are doing something with heat like a kitchen or heater, they have Fire Block spray foam in a black can, and if you need less/no expansion, they have Door & Window spray foam in a blue can for $6. I got a can of that but didn't end up using it- I felt it was easy to not put too much foam into tight areas. You can also get the Pro stuff for twice the price of a normal can, but we didn't see any need.

You shake the can for at least a minute (I recommend longer, but your arms start getting really tired after the first few cans,) then you screw the applicator straw on and unlock the anti-leak front nozzle. Even on full blast where you get the widest application, it's usually only about an inch-round bead, but when you get the hang of applying it in rows or square spirals, you should be able to cover up a large flat-ish area like a wall or door rather quickly, as well as tighter areas...

Not that I give the product marks for being easy to apply. It's made for sealing cracks and gaps, so applying an even layer all over a wall takes a bit of finesse. Still, I don't know why people go with the big applicator kits from companies like Foam It Green... using the individual cans was fine for us, rather cheap, and we didn't have to worry about ordering, mixing the A & B chemicals in right proportions (which is super important for performance and safety,) we just shook the cans.

Once you start using a can, you can only stop for 20-30 seconds before it closes up for good and the can is junk. (I think you can open it back up with solvents but I guarantee you're not gonna want to do take the time to do that, like, ever.) It takes about eight hours to cure and starts expanding quickly, but it doesn't seem to be particularly easy to work with at any point during the cure, (if you wanted to shape while it's still soft that is.)

The packaging is right when it says that cold decreases performance. Specifically, it will not come out as well or spread out as much, (much like cold caulk/glue in a caulking gun,) it will not adhere to surfaces well, and it will take longer to cure. We were doing ours in New England between autumn and winter and got it done, though, so it doesn't need to be that warm to apply. Just turn the heat on... but don't shut the doors and concentrate those explosive gases!

It feels, looks and sounds a lot like packing peanuts after it is cured, but luckily not so squeaky, soft or fragile. It definitely does a really good job insulating for the amount of material, and we think in combination with the Reflectix, it'll do a really good job.

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Pros:

-Affordable (Only took around 20-25 cans, normally $4 each, but we paid half price, so what would have cost us only $100 cost half that!)

-Available (Great Stuff and other polyurethane spray foams are available everywhere as far as I know, considering how useful the stuff is and how many builders swear by it.)

-Vapor blocking (Which means we didn't feel we needed to prime the walls, which would have added extra hours of work)

Cons:

-Toxic, you need a respirator and PPE (personal protective equipment). There is good info available about safety with polyurethane spray foam, but I'll say from personal experience that you minimally want: gloves, eye protection (unless you want the chance of an eyesplash sending you to the hospital), great ventilation in the work area, and a quality and well-fitted respirator with a filter made for aerosols, We will also make sure the walls are sealed up well so that dust from the foam and fiberglass insulation won't harm us.

-Fragile longterm (Haven't seen this personally, but definitely could see this stuff wearing down longterm, so we're making sure not to put any weight on it or put it under anything. I'm mostly concerned about the all the banging around and rocking motion it will experience and whether pieces of foam insulation will start dropping out the bottom openings that are made to drain water. And on that note...

-Vapor blocking (Huh? Yup. There are a lot of different opinions on vapor barriers, especially when you're trying to be able to live in both temperature extremes like we are. Although vapor barriers keep moisture from coming in, they make it harder for it to get out, too, so you have to think about how moisture is coming and going, and know that you're editing/removing those routes as you sprayfoam, which could concentrate moisture problems in one spot, just for one thing. Short of engineering training, I don't know how to get around the possibility of doing something weird to your moisture profile (or whatever it is called), so I recommend to do as much research you can into the moisture issue (including both physics and experiences from other DIY/van conversion/tiny home people online.)

-Difficult to apply - Many forum users opt for the big applicator kits (for hundreds of dollars) or having spray foam applied professionally (for potentially thousands.) After applying my own spray foam successfully for the first time and so far being happy with it, I still understand why they may go that route. Why? Ease of application clearly varies a lot between people, and because the cans aren't necessarily made for insulating large areas, some people may find it difficult or awkward to apply properly. I could imagine just as many people slamming down their last can in frustration cursing the technique, as I could applying it with little or no problems and swearing by it afterwards.  If you're ambitious and dexterous, I say go for it. If you're unsure if you or a helper can make a good application without gunking the whole job site up, you may want to try a different insulation method, like pink fiberglass, which we also used.

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Conclusion

So, we applied a single layer of spray foam over all the walls and doors (besides up front, which we will insulate without spray foam, or spray later). Read the next blog post about insulation...

Changing Directions: DIY Camper Van

Urban stealth & offgrid dwelling

While we originally planned on a travel trailer under 18' towed by a work van or heavy duty truck, we realized how much more work it would be driving that setup, maintaining it, and especially finding places to park it. Since the last post, we readjusted our plans in the direction of greater mobility and stealth, and lower costs.

We decided to go for a large van instead of a trailer and tow vehicle, inspired by urban stealth living and conversions like this Australian guy who transformed his Sprinter van into a mobile office-living space.

We're still basically operating under the paradigm of "driving around camping," which means that at first, the van may just be an insulated shack with few amenities, only good for non-winter weather and with minimal off-grid comforts- requiring you to stay near other sources of showering, toilet and laundry, and you may have to seek other shelter if you find out your 'off-grid vehicle' doesn't hold up to the cold or severe heat so well!

With items like mobile shower kits or composting toilets, you can enhance your capabilities while adding new costs and responsibilities, and we will continue researching options for hygiene and laundry, etc, as we move along the process.

We're looking for a large, pretty heavy duty van with a long/extended body and preferably a hi-top. Unfortunately a Sprinter is outside of our price range for the base vehicle.

Just starting the blog up

A New American Dream

For a long time, the American Dream has been to own your own home, create your own Dream- to become self-made in the Land of Opportunity.

For a lot of people, the Dream has become just a myth, buried under layers of a bleak reality. For most, the American Dream comes on rent or loan. The Dream takes the form of apartments and car leases, the next paycheck and utility bills. The Dream and the rat race have become perfectly integrated, one in the same. What other options are there?

For pioneers of the past, the wilderness may have once represented freedom and opportunity, trading comfort and complacency for the chance at something real and new. In the same spirit, me and my partner decided to cast our lots on a plan that isn't the norm, but may be seen as a new, emerging Dream. A dream of freedom and prosperity on one's own terms, on the move, on the frontier of life.

Brooke & Heron

In our early 20's, we had both already been roommates together, homeless together, and traveled on some out-of-state trips. When it became time for us to seek a new home, our dislike for the rat race made us consider new options, and truly think about what we were capable of accomplishing. We started thinking of a new route to living happily, and asked What do we really want to do? and Where do we really want to be?

We didn't want to pay over a thousand dollars a month in rent in the Northeast anymore, where such rates are normal even for studio apartments. We didn't want to be stuck in entry-level jobs that mercilessly abuse your work ethic and schedule, and we didn't want to be tied to one geographical location for no good reason. Most of all, we wanted to see the world, and get outside more.

Enter the tiny house / small living movement. We saw that a lot of people our age were successfully whipping up very livable and affordable small homes in their backyard, without prior background. Tiny houses were something we already knew about from the web, but now we were getting on-board for real.

We are planning...

Instead of building a tiny house from scratch, we decided to shoot for a fully stripped, towed camper, since the camper provides a strong, pre-made structure, so we can focus on the interior work. Additionally, a camper is separate from your tow vehicle, so vehicle and home issues are separate. (A huge advantage, since you can't live in your RV when it's in the mechanic shop.)

We will start with what is essentially a live-in shed or mini-cabin with minimal utilities. Then we will add the advanced systems piece by piece...

We are planning to do all of our own heating, plumbing, electrical work, rather than relying on what the camper already has. This will let us choose our setup and how it hooks up, and minimize or at least be able to better foresee the types of problems we'll encounter. We intend on all the 'standard amenities', including shower, toilet, kitchen, but we're taking it one step at a time. The vision is a little blurry until we get our stripped camper and can start applying our designs to its exact size. We may even work with the systems that are already in it, if they're in good condition. We just want everything to be as straightforward as possible.

Where we're at now...

Within a month or two, we'll be moving from Rhode Island to take advantage of a generous family member's property in South Carolina, to have a place to stay and start construction on the RV. We plan to invest every dime and effort we can into getting it ready for the road within another month or two, and from there after, we'll embark to test out its livability. To where? We don't even know yet!

That's when the fun really starts. But in the meantime, we will update with personal posts, research and plans. Right now the plan is very vague in some ways, but our intent is not, and what we hope to show you with this blog is just how powerful belief and determination are when it comes to living your dreams.

Keep dreaming with us. Keep you posted.

Got comments?

Leave comments in the thread below or contact us for tips or suggestions. Any polite discussion or criticism is welcome, and we'll be sure to post reader emails and replies to make the blog even more interactive. You can journey with us too! Here and on the road!